The Repetition of War & the Call to Consciousness

In this powerful and timely conversation, Dr. Habīb Boerger is joined by returning guest Abdul-Karim Pinckney—musical artist, former imam, and spiritual thinker—to explore the deeper meaning behind his unreleased single, “Here We Go Again.”

Together, they reflect on the repeating patterns of war, the emotional and spiritual toll of global conflict, and the systems that perpetuate division and injustice. This episode invites listeners to look beyond headlines and ask deeper questions: What is really happening? How are we participating—consciously or unconsciously—in these cycles? And what is ours to do?

Through honest dialogue, personal stories, and spiritual insight, this conversation moves from global issues to deeply personal responsibility—highlighting the importance of awareness, truth-telling, and cultivating mercy in our own lives.

Rather than offering easy answers, this episode holds space for complexity, encouraging each of us to begin where we are: within our own hearts, our choices, and our communities.

Topics include:

• The repetition of war
• Media narratives, fear, and perception 
• Personal responsibility within systemic injustice 
• The power of awareness and inner work 
• Community, connection, and collective change 
• Spiritual clarity in times of uncertainty 

May this conversation invite you into deeper reflection, greater compassion, and a renewed commitment to truth and justice. 

Transcript

Beyond Names: Spirituality for Anyone and Everyone

YouTube Channel: Beyond Names with Dr. Habib Boerger

YouTube handle: @BeyondNamesPodcast

Episode: 43

Host: Dr. Habib Boerger

Conversation Partner: Abdul-Karim Pinckney

Title: The Repetition of War & the Call to Consciousness

Description: In this powerful and timely conversation, Dr. Habīb Boerger is joined by returning guest Abdul-Karim Pinckney—musical artist, former imam, and spiritual thinker—to explore the deeper meaning behind his unreleased single, “Here We Go Again.”

Together, they reflect on the repeating patterns of war, the emotional and spiritual toll of global conflict, and the systems that perpetuate division and injustice. This episode invites listeners to look beyond headlines and ask deeper questions: What is really happening? How are we participating—consciously or unconsciously—in these cycles? And what is ours to do?

Through honest dialogue, personal stories, and spiritual insight, this conversation moves from global issues to deeply personal responsibility—highlighting the importance of awareness, truth-telling, and cultivating mercy in our own lives.

Rather than offering easy answers, this episode holds space for complexity, encouraging each of us to begin where we are: within our own hearts, our choices, and our communities.

Topics include:

• The repetition of war
• Media narratives, fear, and perception 
• Personal responsibility within systemic injustice 
• The power of awareness and inner work 
• Community, connection, and collective change 
• Spiritual clarity in times of uncertainty 

May this conversation invite you into deeper reflection, greater compassion, and a renewed commitment to truth and justice.

Transcript:

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Welcome to Beyond Names, I'm Dr. Habib. This is a space for spiritual seekers and soulful misfits, for the curious and the committed, for those grounded in a tradition, and for those who aren't sure what they believe.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Whether you call the Divine God, Yahweh, Allah, Elohim, Hashem, Brahman, Great Spirit, Higher Power, or you're still searching for language that fits, you are welcome here.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Together, we'll explore the intersection of spirituality and daily life, the wisdom of many traditions, and the ways we return to our true selves, to our source, to the light that each of us carry within.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I'm so glad you're here. Let's begin with introduction of our conversation partner for this episode, Abdul-Karim Pinckney.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Abdul-Karim is a musical artist, former imam, and spiritual thinker. He has previously been on Beyond Names to share and talk about his albums, Project Inspire and Manipulations of the Unreal. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: He is joining us this episode to talk about his latest, his unreleased single, “Here We Go Again.”

Dr. Habīb Boerger: To learn more about Abdul-Karim and his work, please visit themmanofreal.net and cultivatemercy.com. Abdul-Karim, thank you for being here.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Alhamdulillah [Praise God], thank you, it's always a pleasure to be on with you.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, I understand that this latest song is… is in reflection to what's happening in the world today. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, should we start with hearing… hearing it, and then let the conversation unfold from there?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: So, let's do it, let me bring it up.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Okay.

Audio shared by Abdul-Karim Pinckney: 

We startin' wars?

Preemptive strikes on other countries?

[Deep sigh]

Here we go again.

Singing the same old song.

What's really going on? Here we go again.

Doing the same old thing. Here we go again.

I’m wondering when we’ll stand for change.

They’re beatin’ the drums of war.

Emotions run high, I done seen this play before. This monotonous, bread and circus for the populace, they're not hot in this. Want to cause the apocalypse, they got a lot of us, hopeless and distraught. Politicians, blackmailed, and they're bought. No leaders, not enough followers, it doesn't seem to bother us. Waiting for death to swallow us. What happened?

I'm asking religious factions, but no answers, just spiritual bypasses. How do we prepare without falling into despair? I'm starting to wonder, does anybody care? God is wired to a normalcy bias, but where you smell smoke, there's most likely fire. It's a rarity. The calm and my clarity, this life not parody. Is anybody hearing me?

Here we go again.

Singing the same old song. Here we go again.

I’m wondering what's really going on?

Here we go again.

Doing the same old thing.

Here we go again.

I’m wondering when we’ll stand for change.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a false flag and people blamed Muslims for whatever went bad, or…

A different situation. They had enough of the lies. Resist manipulation. I could only hope, though, don't go loco. Jumping to conclusions, intellectual cold go, villainize us. Seek to dehumanize us.

Maybe we won’t fall for it, maybe we rise up, see what God makes, and what man chooses, think before we act, and don't stand foolish, close the door to the calls of war, don't ignore, we all saw it before.

Here we go again.

Singing the same old song. 

Here we go again.

I’m wondering what's really going on?

Here we go again.

Doing the same old thing. Here we go again.

I’m wondering when we’ll stand for change.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Deep breaths, right? Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: What do you think is the most important lyric in that song?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Close the door to the calls of war.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And for… on a more personal note, at the beginning of the second part.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: It was something that really resonated with me, and there was an almost hastefulness with wanting to release this, but as you said, and I've told you, it's unreleased.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I try not to move with haste, but the reality of just the feeling of the possibility of what I said, a false flag that happens, and Muslims end up getting blamed for it.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And, or, you know, like I said, a different situation, because it's happened before where people had enough of the lies and resist the manipulation, which would actually be something interesting to see.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: But those two were real, I think, pertinent because we need each other, and there's this… 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: War is a divisive action. And there's a lot of emotions around things, and if we can remain cool and witness. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: What's being said in front of us is… It doesn't… it makes sense, and at the same time, it doesn't make sense to be in war.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You know, I wonder how many people even understand what a false flag is or have any conception of the possibility of a false flag being something that our government is a part of?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I mean, I just think of my neighbors. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I think of my family, and I think that… that that's just way outside of anything that is the paradigm that they operate in.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Yeah, we entertain ourselves with the notion a lot in Hollywood, though. There's tons of movies where, you know, a false flag was the government, let's just say, attacks its own land or own people in order to blame someone else to be able to make initiatives and move laws, or cause wars, and different things like that.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I mean, there's certain people that, not… I don't… I don't… I'm not well-versed in this area, like political espionage and things like this. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: There's just a light flavoring that I've had experience with, where there's certain figures, you know, I mean… some people talk about… I mean, there's always conspiracy around, like, JFK, or Martin Luther King, you know, being assassinated was on the… Lyndon B. Johnson, and the things that he said, and the FBI following him, Martin Luther King specifically, and people talking, you know, giving him a holiday, and saying he's this big peacemaker, but he wasn't seen like that while he was living, not by our government, and a lot of the people.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You know, in a recent episode, I had a conversation in which the conversation partner, Cathy Antunes, said, you know, we have not reckoned in this country with our history.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Oh, why are you smiling?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Oh, yeah, I mean, that kind of goes… I mean, just recently, the UN resolution to acknowledge the slave trade as one of the greatest crimes against humanity, and the U.S. was against that recognition, and they can say because of reparation language, but they're just, like....

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: It is, I mean, removing certain textbooks and… and… and classes out of colleges....

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And, you know, it's, it's not, it's not something foreign for me, like, why when you said that and I smiled, my wife sometimes says that I have a wild sense of humor, like, because I laugh at truthful things.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: My laugh sometimes is a laugh of recognition, not necessarily, like, you know, folly or something, but it's… it's… 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: That goes… for my… in my life, that kind of goes without saying. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: It's… and there's a…I don't know, it's weird because people want to be proud about things in history but don't want to carry the same acknowledgement for things that are shameful about the history.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And there's the… you can recognize that, but at the same time, it's… You're connecting yourself to the past with something to be proud about but because you didn't do whatever, you know, the negatives, you don't want to connect to that, because it…

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And that's why, for me, it's like, in the song, when I said, it's monotonous. This is rep… this repetition of going to war, or people need to be free, and we need to be the world police to go free them, and the people that we're going against are actually dictators that we set up.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: But, like, it's just… not we, but, you know, the government set up. Yeah, Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And there's a whole list of places you know, it's… there's an unfortunate, and I think we talked about it the last time, with even the hardships people are going through, and the awareness around the misuse of power and injustice with ICE and different things like that.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: For me... people will say, like, oh, you know, the misuse of force, people killed on the street, unarmed, some armed, but not in any danger, endangering the police, and… and… or the ICE.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And it's like… these kind of sound like echoes that I've heard from my people since I can remember. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: So there's a weird dynamic where, Yes, it's still bad, it's heinous, but… for us, it's like…now, we get looked at weird for not jumping on the bandwagon that we actually started a long time ago.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And so the trauma of being, on the opposite side of it, and then kind of either developing thick skin or just dealing with it.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Now you’re kind of looked at sideways for not jumping even more so on being loud about the things, the situation that's going on.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: It's like, well, we… we're already using our voice, and now it matters more because, whether it's… the use of cameras are more present or a different demographic is feeling the blunt of it.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, I know that, I mean, I know you well enough to know that when you say you're… it's monotonous, that in no way is that minimizing the horror or the loss of life.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And as you said, you used the word repetition, what you're getting to is the repetitious nature of the…of this action on the part of our government.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And I want to speak to that because I just think… for a variety of reasons.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: But just as we were talking about and making reference to not making… not resolving our history as a country and addressing that properly.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It's very… it's absolutely sort of mind-boggling to think about the fact that the Native Indigenous population was reduced by 96%.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You know, Like, it… it's an… it's mind-boggling to think about the hundreds of thousands of people, if not even a larger number, you know, that were enslaved.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It's… inconceivable, really without, like, actually making a list, to even just think about all of the countries that the United States has bombed since World War II.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, Japan, Korea, China, Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Pakistan, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bosnia, Herzogovina, Yugoslavia, Congo, Libya, Somalia, Guatemala, Cuba, Granada, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama. Like… That is… This is what our country has done since 1945.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, I just wanted to… I just have to say that because of your use of that… of that lyric, that you're…

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Yeah, yeah.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: That's just the repetition.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And, you know, we, even us as Americans, have to realize that, you know, how we speak about we're all connected, not just us as Americans, but on the world stage, that our lifestyle contributes to inequality and injustice.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Like, we… we're blind, like, every day, like, we're a… we're aware of a lot more going on in the world, but I believe every day of our life, we could be conscious of some wild violation, not that we're doing, but that exists in the world.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And then, when I say our lifestyle, just the industrialization age, how much justice do the people who harvest the food, like, how much are they being paid for how much goes into just one can of, say, a can of string beans?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: How much energy goes into that one can to be put on the shelf for it to cost $1.99, or 79 cents?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Right.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And so you have the people harvesting, you have the truck drivers, the way they're treated, there's a whole list, and we're not usually conscious of it.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: But there's… there's a whole lot nationally that there's injustice, and internationally with sweatshops and people…

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Just our system of living is like a… is a kind of cancer to the earth in one way, and we benefit in other ways, but…

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: You know, it's hard to, to come to terms with, and that again points to, like, resolving our history, can we just be honest about it?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Like, if us, we want to take an hour shower, like, we just sit there, and like, oh, you know, and just let the water run, waste enough, when you just… should just wash up and get out.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Like, I was… when I went to Mauritania, taking a bucket shower, like, that's really the amount of water you needed to wash up. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: But we get into this luxurious… and it's from people that, you know, don't have a lot, to people that do have a lot, and it's can we be honest with ourselves and just say, yes, I do… I, too, have contributed, not directly, not consciously, but just my being, there's that part of it.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And being humble enough to own up to it. That takes a lot.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Right.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, are you participating in fast fashion, just as a simple… like, a simple, everyday example. Are you participating in fast fashion? Are you… are you wasteful with your water usage?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I have to add that 30… this is a statistic of, I think, maybe 3 weeks ago, 4 weeks ago, but 33% of Americans are cutting back on food, utilities and prescriptions because of the cost of healthcare.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And this is before, you know, we've had this increase in gas prices because of our most recent choice to participate with Israel in bombing Iraq, I mean, Iran, excuse me. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So we're… We are participating collectively and individually in injustice.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And… I think that something that we need to hold in our consciousness is this relationship between injustice and well, it's… for today, and for the purposes of this sing… of this single, “Here We Go Again,” war. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So for this discussion, there is a relationship between injustice and war, and what it takes to create change on a… on a large scale.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Do you have any, any thoughts on that?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I don't have any idea as far as large scale. Like, to be honest, I don't really… my, my, like I say, cultivating mercy one heart at a time is kind of my phrase with Cultivate Mercy. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: So, I think each individual, starting with ourselves first, to be able to acknowledge, to be able to just have an awareness, a more clear awareness of the playing field, our participation.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And then also having mercy for ourselves, because we didn't start any of these systems, and we didn't choose to go to war, and all of these different things, but we're here nonetheless. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And so knowing that… we are limited, so choose where we can make a difference.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And step by step, as you were able to sustainably make a difference in your own individual life with the choices you make of whether what kind of clothes, and where you shop, and conscious…consumer consciousness, however it is, conserving water usage.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And being able… I think really now, especially, specifically with this war stuff, is can we really connect to each other?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Because in my just recent conversations, if people are holding certain points of views that is really… they are putting trust in something that has proven to be untrustworthy.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: So I'll just say, for example, the screen, or the media portrayal of, let's say Muslims, or somebody you've never met, anybody that you've never actually physically interacted with, and you use what you see on the screen as an accurate representation of them.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: That's already starting off on the wrong foot.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Because there's been so much… I mean, once you get to know people, but the courage it takes to get over your own prejudices and judgment.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I'm talking from my own experience, just… 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I'll give a good example, and you can ask whatever. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: When I lived in Pennsylvania, I had gotten notice for delivery that was supposed to come in, some stuff from Cultivate Mercy. And I never saw it at my doorstep, and this is, you know, I was living off the farm, not in that area, but not far from it, so I didn't really know anybody. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: It was just me and…and I was like, oh man, I'm going to have to go knock on somebody's door and see if they got my package. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And it's like, you know, I'm the only Black person here, and it just… these thoughts, these are real human thoughts that go on, and so… It was close to maghrib, so, you know, for people that don't know, sunset.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And I was like, mmm… I was going to go across the street. And I actually went across the street.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And… I looked, and I was like, it's kind of dark, I don't know if they got ring cameras, and, you know, it's kind of… it's just a different environment. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I was like, you know, I think I'll wait until the next day when the sun is bright and, you know, you can see I'm not a threat, or you can at least just see me, like… 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: So, and it turned out, mashallah [God has willed it], that it was just… because we had a long driveway, it was somewhere that normally they don't deliver, but it was still on the property, so I was able to get it. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: But I was just conscious of all of my own inner dialogue as I was going through it, and can people overcome their own… because that's all it is, is your conversation..

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I had no proof that these people were mean, or if they were racist, or anything. Some people told me something about some neighbors, but I didn't have the experience to come to the conclusion myself. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And so can we do that in order to connect, because that's the currency of the day.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: The money… if we do come into hard times, we're going to need each other. We're not going to be this no man is an island. We can't survive individually.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: It'll run out, or other things, I don't want to paint negative scenarios.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well, I appreciate you bringing it and making it very individual. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I think I've mentioned before the idea of the 3 feet around you, I've heard Reverend Gregory C. Ellison II talk about… he's the guy who wrote Fearless Dialogues, and talk about the wisdom from his grandmother, or from his auntie, or… I can't remember which it was, but it was, you know, in my memory, it was him saying he was on the front porch and asking, you know, a loved one, either his grandmother or his auntie, you know, like, how do we change the world? And her advice was, you know, don't worry about the world, worry about the six feet around you.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So I do appreciate that there's that aspect of, like, what do we do with our own hearts, and in our own daily life, our activities of our daily life. And I love the examples of the showering, and how you spend your money, you know, how you shop, where you shop, food, clothes, everything, all of that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And I think when you have something as big as a war, as one country attacking another country that there is an invitation for change on a larger level, that there's an invitation to change for the collective.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: There's an invitation for a consciousness, a change in consciousness, a change of awareness that is… a lot of individuals.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And I suppose that we don't have any way of knowing whether something as horrific and in this case, as global of, of the impacts of the U.S. and Israel bombing Lebanon and Iran, like, we don't really have any way of knowing, is this going to result in an increase in our consciousness of our interconnection of our… that we're all brothers and sisters in humanity.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, with that said, beyond the things that you've talked about in terms of the individual actions, what do you think is ours to do, to be… to… to do our part of that greater level of consciousness, or that greater level of awareness, or that…

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: so there can be a shift.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I, I wrestle with this, because, let's say on a systemic level we can, you know, get together and, you know, let your voice be heard by your local and state representatives of things you would like to see as a representation of yourself in America as an American citizen.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And, that's one thing for me, personally.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I really don't have large-scale hope like that, because I just don't see, and this is only my… I know it's a miniscule perception amongst many.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I don't see the connectivity from the people and the government.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I don't really see… and let's say what they… this term they like to use now, pattern recognition, I don't see the pattern where people who have collectively, like, we could use something ain't… I was going to say ancient, but long ago, like the Alabama, bus boycott to… to enact some sort of change.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I don't see that level of unity in people to make a self-sacrifice to walk to work or do something big, like, okay, we're just not going to go to work, so you… because usually people say in these movements, you have to show them in their pockets.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Like, the people who have the actual power and influence, you have to hit their pockets for them to even notice you.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Like, you can use your voice, and I used to say if playing basketball, because I'm, you know, used to be athletic with basketball, when you are in the, oh, you're not a… you're not the home team, you're playing away.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And you're, say, at the foul line and the people are saying, you know, miss the shot, miss, and they're chanting against you.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: You're not… if your objective is to hit the, the goal to make the free throw, you're not paying attention to what they're saying.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And, you know, they are playing… they have goals and initiatives that we may not be aware of, so we can talk all we want. It's like the crowd talking to someone at the free throw line. It's just bad… if you get to the point, it's just background noise.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: It's not something that's actually going to make you say, oh, you know, I really… they have a point. Like, it's… and Assata Shakur had a… had a saying that it's not too… I'm not really…I mean, it seems to be truthful that, you know, power never changes…

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I can't remember. It's something to the point of power not changing through peaceful means ["Nobody in the world, nobody in history, has ever gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people who were oppressing them"], like, that people don't let go of their power except through, you know, confrontation. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I don't necessarily buy that in this dynamic, because, again, there is…

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I keep coming, circling back to the lack of unity amongst people in order to see a commonality. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Like, maybe if things do get bad and gas prices get crazy, the food starts to be expensive, and people can't afford things, then maybe enough people will get impacted to say, no, wait, this is enough.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And then, how do you… and that, because this is a good… because somebody, man, this is something to your point, somebody put a comment on a reel I've watched, and it was like, you know, Americans, what are you doing? Why are you, like, allowing your government to do these types of things?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And I replied to them, I said, I don't know what your thought of America is, like, as far as us as citizens and people, whether you think, like we're a unified one.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Do you think we're well-informed to and… what level of influence do you see beyond just, like, you know, the skeleton of how the governmental system is supposedly supposed to work according to the layout versus how it actually works?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Like, I said, I don't know where… what is it that you see? Who are you talking to when you say America? 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Is it just like an abstract figure? Like, what is the concept in your mind that you think is going to be like, oh yeah, we should all just riot, or some crazy, like, what is it… what do people think?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: On the large… I have no answer for that, like large scale. I have no answer, because I just don't see how.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Like, they have movies about the Civil War, and some other… there was another movie about just this type of stuff, and how we don't necessarily need to be attacked. We'll attack each other if we're left alone to our paranoia.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm, yeah. Yeah.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And so I have no answer for that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I have to say that.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Do you?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Do I?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Any projection to how? Because that's something that's always baffled me on large scale.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well I don't know, but there's a couple things that I think of.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I mean, I think that having these kind of conversations is an important part of it. You know, I think inviting people to a greater level of consciousness, a greater level of awareness, I think, inviting people to consider information and perspectives that they just are unfamiliar with.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I know in this country, depending on… and I suppose this is true in many countries, but, you know, depending on where you get your information, you get presented vastly different perspectives, and… 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I mean, I would say that we are living in a time of rampant falsehood, you know, where the level of deceitfulness is just.... 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So… so I think part of it is speaking truth because I do believe that if enough people speak the truth.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: There are some people who will remain closed because they don't want to hear it.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: But I think that there are other people where it'll hit something within them, and it'll shift something internally, where they will recognize that as truth, and go, oh, that sounds true or, oh, that feels true.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so that there will be a certain level of awakening, or increased awareness happening.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, those things. I also think, and I'll be completely honest, you know, where I live, I send my messages to my representatives and senators, and and where I live, it's an exercise in… it feels, I should say, I feel, I experience it as an exercise in futility, right?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Because it seems as if these are not ... that the elected… the officials by whom I am currently represented, theoretically, you know...

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: are not in… they don't appear … from all appearances, they appear to not operate as individuals, as thinking individuals. They seem to operate only as, I mean, almost like robots doing what they're told by an unnamed individual.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You know, it's like there's no room for thinking about the party line, whether there's truth in the party line, whether there's justice, whether there's compassion, whether there's kindness, whether there's equity. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Like, it just seems like there's no… there's no room for that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so it definitely does feel like… it doesn't know… it doesn't… It feels as if it doesn't matter how many times I vote.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It feels like it doesn't matter how many times I email, it doesn't matter how many times I pick up the phone, but I have to tell myself, okay, what are organizations that are participating in making a change.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so I do think about the elected… the areas of the country where they are electing officials who do seem to be intellectually engaged as well as heartfully engaged, with a level of consciousness that you don't see in other elected officials.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so I have to say, okay, there's hope.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Because if this person can get elected here, in this part of the country, it's possible that a similar kind of consciousness can be elected in another part of the country.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, of course, I think of the example of nonviolent resistance.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I think of the, the Women's March.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: How the community in Minnesota really came together. And we've seen this in places like Portland, in Minneapolis, where people, very diverse groups of people, come together and accomplish great things.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: We see it in organizations like Braver Angels, which is around having conversations across political divides.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: We see it in organizations like Newground, which is an organization that brings persons who are Muslim and persons who are Jewish together.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: We see it in organizations like Jewish Voice for Peace.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: the Council, for… what is CAIR? The Council on American Islamic Relations? I think that's acronym.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Yes.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And how they are engaged in… trying to… speak up on social media, speak up in the media that they can.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: They [Muslim Public Affairs Council] have a Hollywood division where they're, you know, they're engaged in saying, you know, this depiction of Muslims is absolutely not only offensive but completely false.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I mean, so there's that multi-level multi-pronged engagement.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, I don't know, those are just some thoughts on… 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Yeah, no, like, and then there's a line in the song, politicians are blackmailed and they're bought.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And then the next line is big for me, because it's just the experiences I have with “no leaders, not enough followers.” Now, obviously, that's a generalization. We do have leaders out there.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: But seeing followers, like, the level… I don't, like, whether there's a lack of leadership or a lack of followership where, you know, some places they say, everybody's a leader, and then chaos comes out of that kind of thought process, and because you don't have any structure. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: This is a world that, you know, the heart is in the body, and the body is a structure, so it protects all… you have a ribcage.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And so you, just the willingness to follow somebody, I don't… in my just menial conversations with people, and listening to discussions happen that I may not even be a part of, just to follow, having the humility to follow someone, is not at a high level.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And… and when there is somebody in leadership, the level of criticism that comes out, and all of these different movements, I've heard shadows of things, and I'm like, are we expecting an angel to be in power, like, or leadership, like this.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: You have to allow some level of humanity when there are no more prophets, like, there are no more prophets.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And it's hard to… in that dynamic, I haven't seen a healthy balance in my experience in different communities and organizations I've been a part of.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I haven't… except for once, and you know, I always go back to that. I don't know what they're doing now, but my… the first community I was a part of was my beacon of hope.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And it was kind of a shock after I left there, because I thought that's just what it was, how it was to be in community, and Muslims and stuff, and…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: There were so many people with different ethnicities, different age groups, and working together to come together and hand-in-hand in making things happen, and leadership giving the community a voice to listen to what they wanted.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And the community respecting the leadership enough to, when they said, no, we're not going to do X, Y, and Z, to say, okay, and submit to that. And when I seen that, I was like, subhanAllah [Glory to God], and then, you know, mashallah [God has willed it], it…

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: I'm talking about the old Zaytuna institute when it was in Hayward. Like, now mashallah it is a part of Berkeley College, and it's the first accredited Islamic college in America on the Berkeley campus.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And to me, that's kind of a testimony as to how it started and how many, how organic it was, where there was that balance.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Then I left there, and I was thrown into a sea of otherness, other experiences that were very shocking to me. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And… and so… I don't know. I've only had that one example.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And that was 25 years ago.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: But, you know, I also went to Zaytuna College. So Zaytuna College is getting a little, free commercial here on this, on this… in this episode. I was just there for a language intensive, a summer language intensive.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And it was so refreshing to be in a community with people… with people who are very devoted to living their religion, to embodying the values and virtues of Islam, and, you know, I don't know that I have ever experienced the level of politeness, of courtesy...

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You know, I'm just, like… the way people conducted themselves. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I don't know that I've ever experienced that anywhere else the way I experienced it at, at Zaytuna College.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Alhamdulillah, well, I wish to go and experience what it's become, because ... I know what it was like in the beginning, and now it's in a whole different, you know, in Berkeley, so… inshallah, I’ll get to experience it.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: But I'm happy to hear that you had that experience as well.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, that was probably 2014 or so, somewhere around there.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: But that was my experience. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So I think that…as much as we can do our own individual work in terms of our own individual contemplation and cultivating peace and mercy and compassion and love in our own hearts, embodying that in our individual actions, like we talked about earlier, but also participating in community, because in being in relationship with each other, we are revealing who we are to ourselves and to each other.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And we find where our rough spots are, like, where we need some more work.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: But it's also an opportunity for us to engage in collective action when we're in that kind of community that is committed to truth, is committed to mercy, is contributed to honoring human rights, basic human right to life, to clothing, to shelter, to food, to clean water, just like that is committed to equity, which is committed to respect, committed to dignity, to be parts of community where those are shared values, and then to act collectively in whatever ways are possible whether that's nonviolent demonstrations, whether it's marching on the Capitol, whether it's showing up and going to visit your the offices of your elected representatives, whether it's doing massive campaigning and trying to put different people in the election, electoral process. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Whatever it might be, I think all of that's…I think all of that is worthwhile and important, and I think we all have to ask ourselves, you know, like, where am I standing? What am I doing? What's mine to do?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And I think you're also doing your part with having these podcasts, mashallah.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: To get just the awareness out there, because that's another venue that, you know, you can see that, you know, reaching people's social media, it doesn't… it's good to… it's very… it's… I think it's more paramount to have within your physical grasp, but also within what I call, like, the noosphere out there, to be a voice in the void that is the internet towards something positive and just reflection or awareness.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well any closing thoughts before we wrap up?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Seeing where we can be honest within ourselves, and taking that out, like, because when I was talking about, you know, developing our own and understanding our own self.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: That's just the first step. Then it's taking it out amongst the world, and being in the world.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Getting out of our own individualized living, where we go to work, come from work.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And we might sit down and just veg out on the TV, or the doom scrolling and stuff like that.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: How can we take… our movement… to make connections, to create these communal movements.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Because there's this, each one, teach one. It… it takes one…

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And then, you know, from that one, another one, and then a bunch of ones become a group.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: But we have to be willing to take that step, and inshallah, I'm also offering a class for this called the “Discipline of clarity.”

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And inshallah, that, that, people who check, cultivatemercy.com, that's, starting August… I mean, April 25th.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And it's just the class on, if I say it simply, understanding the being of human beings.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And so anyone, whether it's beginner Muslims, everyone's welcome, but it is grounded with Islamic wisdom, but the first… it's an 8-session course. 

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: The first six sessions, we're just talking about human experience, and I think everyone, regardless of label, can relate to that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Okay.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, well, once again, Abdul-Karim, thank you for the great conversation.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I just want to end with setting the intention that, you know, may we all grow in peace. May we all grow in truth and awareness. And may the divine grant us mercy and right guidance.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: If I just could add, what I was sharing about how all the disarray and injustice is that we all engage in… it's almost a sign that everything's not being held together by our choices.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: That there is a mercy that's making existence coherent, even with all of our foolishness.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: And that's something to think about.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yes.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: That all of the human foolishness is still within, this is still within the… the umbrella of the Divine Mercy, or the hands of the Divine Mercy.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Well, thank you, Abdul-Karim. Thank you to all listeners for joining us on Beyond Names.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Before we go briefly, if you would pause and take one breath and reflect for just a moment on what stays with you from this conversation with Abdul-Karim Pinckney.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And I got to say, thank you for putting, putting what's happening In the world today, into… and you're processing that and being with that into a song, because I think so many people are really deeply struggling with what's happening in their lives, and there's just so much suffering that's happening, you know, within our country and across the world.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, thank you for doing that. When is the song, “Here We Go Again,” when is it going to be released?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Inshallah, God willing, in two weeks.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: In two weeks. Okay.

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: So probably around the same time for the class, that Friday before the class, or the 24th.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Okay, so sometime around the 24th of April?

Abdul-Karim Pinckney: Yes.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Okay, alright.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, thank you again. May something you heard today help you reconnect with the light in your own heart. May you grow in compassion and clarity and courage and truth, and awareness. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: May you find your way again and again back home to the divine, back home to yourself.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: If today's conversation spoke to you, please like, share, and comment on this episode. Please follow and subscribe to Beyond Names.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Again, Abdul-Karim, his music is on themanofreal.net, and he has an upcoming class in April called “Discipline of Clarity,” which is about understanding the being of human being, understanding human experience and that's at cultivatemercy.com.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: To make an appointment with me, please visit https://www.habibboerger.com/. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Until next time, may you be light, may you consciously participate in growing your light, and may you share your light.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Peace be with you.