Everything but Nothing: Creativity, the Body, and Returning to the True Self

In this deeply moving conversation, Dr. Habīb Boerger is joined by spiritual healer and artist Michele Hamida Rabinowitz for a rich exploration of spirituality lived through the body, creativity, and presence.

Michele shares her life story as a series of sacred doorways—birth trauma, dance, motherhood, bodywork, loss, healing, movement, and art—each one drawing her closer to God and to her true self. From myofascial release and spiritual healing to expressive movement and intuitive painting, Michele reflects on how the body remembers, how creativity heals, and how art becomes a spiritual practice of unveiling.

Together, Dr. Habīb and Michele explore embodiment as a path to the Divine, the role of joy and curiosity in spiritual life, the courage to say “yes” to transformation, and what it means to become “everything but nothing.” This episode invites listeners to consider how creativity—whether through art, movement, prayer, or simple presence—can dissolve the masks we wear and return us to the light within.

A tender, expansive dialogue for anyone longing to integrate spirituality with the lived realities of body, emotion, creativity, and everyday life. 

Transcript

Beyond Names: Spirituality for Anyone and Everyone

YouTube Channel: Beyond Names with Dr. Habib Boerger

YouTube handle: @BeyondNamesPodcast

Episode: 29

Host: Dr. Habib Boerger

Conversation Partner: Michele Hamida Rabinowitz

Title: Everything but Nothing: Creativity, the Body, and Returning to the True Self

Description: In this deeply moving conversation, Dr. Habīb Boerger is joined by spiritual healer and artist Michele Hamida Rabinowitz for a rich exploration of spirituality lived through the body, creativity, and presence.

Michele shares her life story as a series of sacred doorways—birth trauma, dance, motherhood, bodywork, loss, healing, movement, and art—each one drawing her closer to God and to her true self. From myofascial release and spiritual healing to expressive movement and intuitive painting, Michele reflects on how the body remembers, how creativity heals, and how art becomes a spiritual practice of unveiling.

Together, Dr. Habīb and Michele explore embodiment as a path to the Divine, the role of joy and curiosity in spiritual life, the courage to say “yes” to transformation, and what it means to become “everything but nothing.” This episode invites listeners to consider how creativity—whether through art, movement, prayer, or simple presence—can dissolve the masks we wear and return us to the light within.

A tender, expansive dialogue for anyone longing to integrate spirituality with the lived realities of body, emotion, creativity, and everyday life.

Transcript:

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Welcome to Beyond Names, I'm Dr. Habib. This is a space for spiritual seekers and soulful misfits, for the curious and the committed, for those grounded in the tradition, and for those who are not sure what they believe.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Whether you call the Divine God, Yahweh, Allah, Elohim, Brahman, Great Spirit, Higher Power, or you're still searching for language that fits, you are welcome here. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Together, we'll explore the intersection of spirituality and daily life, the wisdom of many traditions, the ways we return to our true selves, to our source, to the light that each of us carry within.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I'm so glad you're here. Let's begin with introduction of our conversation partner for this episode, Michelle Rabinowitz. Michelle Rabinowitz has been in the healing arts for 30 years as a massage therapist, body worker, and spiritual healer.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: She is a self-taught, aspiring artist and is passionate about helping her clients connect to their innate creativity, their inner wisdom, and their deepest truths.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: She works one-on-one with clients offering spiritual healing, as well as spiritual and life coaching.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: To learn more about Michelle and her work, please visit www.michelehamida.com and her Instagram @sacredexpressionart.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Michelle, welcome, thank you for being here.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Thank you, Dr. Habib. It's an honor to be here with you. Thank you.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, would you please introduce yourself by way of your spiritual story, sharing what you feel comfortable with, of course, in relation to your journey, so we get a sense of who you are?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yes, I would love to. So I'm going to start with my birth, because that kind of was the door that opened, actually, my life. And, it was definitely my spiritual journey.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I came into this world weighing 3 pounds 8 ounces, and I was… I'm a twin, so there were two of us.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I heard this story all my life. It didn't really mean much to me, it was just a story.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But as I got older and started seeking, I realized there was some significance here. There was something I really needed to understand.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So, my mother, you know, only gained 21 pounds with both of us, which is not a lot of weight. It's not even a lot of weight with one baby, no less two.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And she also was a heavy smoker, so it wasn't a very good environment.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I don't know if that had any bearing on why I was so tiny, other than being a twin. But they put me in an incubator. My sister went home, she was of normal weight.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, I was there for 6 weeks. And at the 6-week point, they… sent me home.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And again, my parents were… both of them were heavy smokers, and my grandparents were also there a lot, and they were also heavy smokers.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Here I am, coming out of an incubator, very sterile environment, into smoke, you know, secondhand smoke.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yes.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, so what happened is I ended up with bronchial pneumonia and almost died.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So they took me back, they brought me back to the incubator for 6 more weeks. So that was, you know, 3 months in an incubator.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, so I'm going to fast forward to age 16.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Okay.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I just want to share a little bit, you know, just as a child, I had a lot of developmental problems.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I was very asleep, didn't know it. I was very shut down as a child, and I was not really, as I got older, I was not really… especially growing up in New York. You know, it's rough in New York, and it's rough.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So, I, I wasn't really walking down a very good road, honestly.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, so at 16, my brother, who was this very spiritual seeker, and a hippie at that time.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: He, he was involved with Sufism.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And one day, he invited my sister and I, my twin and I, to go Sufi dancing in Coconut Grove, Florida.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I thought, Sure, yes, you know?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And my twin, who was definitely not interested. She was more interested in just, you know, at 16, you know, makeup and hair and all the outer stuff.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But for me, I guess I was different, and I said yes.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And when he… when I walked in, Habib, Dr. Habib, it… it was life-changing, you know, just… the teachers, the, participants, the energy, the love.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And we would dance to all the great religions of the world, and I had no idea what I was walking into, but it was life-changing. I knew my life changed at that moment.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I started studying a little bit about Sufism. And I would go regularly with my brother.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And then I met my husband at 17, and I would bring him. He was also a seeker. That was really what we, you know, really was how we connected, was spiritually first.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And we both came from very dysfunctional families, so we really needed that. Like, that was very… we didn't realize that, but that was that spirituality, that connection, and that's 50 years ago, so we're still together. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, so, we… we got married, and, and then I became a mother. I was a young wife, and I was a very young mother.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I kind of stopped with the Sufism, but I realized, really, my stepping into motherhood was my spiritual work. It was very spiritual. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I devoted… I don't know, 17, 18 years to my children and to my family.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I would say, like, I kind of lost the timeline, but somewhere when they were, like, young teenagers, I felt like I needed to go back to school. I needed something.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I was somewhat in the, you know, common labor market, and I needed to really change that.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So my brother, again, you know, he was really my first spiritual teacher. Not really, he was my first spiritual teacher.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And he had just graduated massage therapy school, and I got talking to him, telling him, you know, I want to do something, there's something I feel like I need to do, and he said, Go to massage school. I said, massage school?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I had an idea what massage was, but I had no… I really didn't know what was involved. I was very ignorant.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And anyway, so one thing led to another, and I found proper care for my children, and I ended up going to massage school.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And again, it changed my life. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It was ... I felt like I was a kid in a candy store. There was just so much…

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I studied everything from herbalism to essential oils, to energy healing, to all different types of massage, neuromuscular and deep tissue.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, it was… it was incredible, although I burned out a lot. I didn't realize that, you know, I was very sensitive, and also physically.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I didn't know really proper body mechanics, so I would burn out pretty frequently.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But I… I felt like I was in deep service.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I… I loved the work that I was doing.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Well, halfway through my career, I was… my clients kept coming back for this… you know, really for the same chronic pain.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, over and over again, and I thought, well, what am I not doing? What am I not understanding here? For me, it was always about, let's get to the root of it. Like, what's going on underneath?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: That was where my curiosity went.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, what I realized was there was a missing link there, there was a missing piece. So, and I didn't know what it was. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So I did some research, because I was due for my CEUs. And, I came across myofascial release, John Barnes's work.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And it was a 10-day class. You could do 3 days or 10 days. It was like a series. And I signed up for 3 days, not knowing at all what I was getting myself into.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So… day one, I knew this was my work. I just knew it. I just… it was something I… like, I never knew…like, what we hold inside…you know… was just… really where the problem was.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: The fascia holds the memory of everything that happens to us.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And what was coming… what was releasing through, you know, the students and what I was feeling was just… I just couldn't believe… I had no words for it, but I knew this work was very, very deep.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I studied it, and I changed instantly, really, with my clients. I didn't do the deep tissue and the Swedish and all that. It was really… I wanted to get to the root, and I felt the fascia was the missing piece.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, and but then, at some point, I realized, it's beyond the fascia. There's more. There's something more I need to really understand here.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So, I got a phone call from a friend. Well, let me back up a little bit.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: My husband and I were in a situation, we actually… it was a… It's a very difficult situation.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I, my kids, my last child, we became empty nesters.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: We were hit with a very bad hurricane. We were living in Florida at the time.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: My husband lost most of his income because of that hurricane.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: My mother passed.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: My twin, unfortunately, is… that's…unfortunately became a drug addict 30 years ago, and she was having a very difficult time. So, all that took place, really, in a few months. Huge loss.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And just, I didn't know what to hang on to, I didn't, like… The identity of being a mother, being a daughter, you know, being a massage therapist, you know, living at a certain level, and then really losing a lot.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And real estate, everything just came…tumbling down.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So I got a phone call from a friend. And she said, listen, there's a, a seminar coming up, a workshop, and this guy is a Sufi.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I know you're… she reminded me that we… I told her that I studied Sufism.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And she said, I think we should go. I said, I'm there. You know, yes. I needed something to hold on to, because everything around me was just, you know, there's nothing to hold on to.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So we went to the, the workshop, and it was my teacher, Dr. Ibrahim Jaffe.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And as soon as he started speaking, like, my heart just broke open.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And…again, you know, I felt like all these things just came into my life, one at a time, as gifts and opportunities to seek, to understand who I… who I was, my purpose here, and for deep healing.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I needed deep healing, especially coming into this world the way I did, having a twin sister that's very troubled, and .

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Mmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And so we went, and… He changed my life.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You know, so I continued to study with him.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I took hands with my guide, Sidi Al-Jamal not too long after.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I've been studying ever since, and, and then, probably about 8, 9 years ago, I decided to, deepen my studies with Ibrahim to do the Master's Sufi… the master's program, the, Sufi Healer Master's program.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And that's what I've been doing for the last 8-9 years, is just learning from him.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And that's been my work, so it really tied in well with the massage and the healing work that I've been doing. I was very much interested in energy healing. That would seem to be my thing. I felt very intuitive, and, you know, I was… I was able to kind of sense subtleties.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And so now I'm going to fast-forward again.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, I was born Jewish.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I went to… this was not too long after I met Ibrahim, and I went, to synagogue, it was the high holidays.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I was sitting there, and I just turned my head, and I saw this woman.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And she got up, and she started just dancing and moving her body in a way that was just intriguing for me. It's like, wow, there's, like, 150 people in this room.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But the dance was different.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And after, I said to myself, I need to speak with her. There's something there I'm very curious about. I always loved dance. Dance was my thing as a child, and I always loved music.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So I was, like, very interested in having a conversation with her.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And so, of course, I did, and she told me what she was dancing. It was called authentic, authentic dancing.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, it was like an inner dance. It was expressive dance. It wasn't structured, it wasn't any… any particular form.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Anyway, when I got home, I started doing all kinds of research. She shared with me about all different types of movement, but it wasn't just dance, it wasn't just movement, it was a spiritual practice.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So, I did end up going to Five Rhythms, that was what I was interested in, because I did love music, and it was a great combination.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And when I went, Dr. Habib, again, it just was life-changing. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: What was coming, you know, it's just amazing what we hold in the body, what we hold in the heart. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And what was… what I was feeling was just incredible, just by… just dancing my own dance, by just moving in a way that was, like, part of who I was.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I… for a couple of years, I was… I would travel and go to different… see different teachers, and dance was, like, my thing. Again, it wasn't… it was my spiritual practice.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And it was extremely deep, and I couldn't believe what was coming up and out, and how things would just release, and things I've been holding onto probably all my life.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And shortly after that, I ... my daughter was in acupuncture school.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And she, she, she had just finished, and there was a teacher that… one of her teachers 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Who was doing a particular type of acupuncture treatment.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It was more for, like, Depossession work [Deposession treatment rooted in Taoist medicine], and, and her teacher lived in Maine. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So after my daughter graduated, she actually moved up to Maine to study further with her teacher. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And they would have these weekend workshops, and I was invited to attend, I guess because I was in the healing arts, and I was a healer, and, you know, she felt like I would be a good fit, so I did go.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, you know, the client would lie on the table, and then there was an acupuncture treatment, and, you know, whole process. I didn't understand, because that wasn't my work.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But we each had a role. All the students that were studying had a role, and I was chosen to be the artist.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I thought, okay, I'm not an artist, I'm not sure what to do with these chalky-looking things, beautiful colors, and there's pastels.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But I'll just go with it.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I did, and again, it just opened my heart, opened doors that I just couldn't imagine opening.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I started…you know, I wish I still had those paintings, and I don't, but I thought to myself, wow, there was something there that I was… it was just so. it was deep. It was really deep.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And when I went home to Florida, I bought some canvas. I bought a canvas, and I bought an easel, and I bought all kinds of paint. I had no idea what I was buying, because I never was interested in art. I always loved beauty.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, I love beauty. And color.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But art, it wasn't really something I was interested in.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And then, I started painting.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And… I would play music and dance, because I had now the movement, I had to dance.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And then I started to paint.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And again, my life changed in a way that…like, the door that opened to joy, and curiosity, and freedom, and beauty, and color, and expression changed my life again in a way, I could never have imagined.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And so now it's been about 8 years, and here I am still painting. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I decided… I was living in Maine before I moved to North Carolina, and I started doing art, you know, the tent shows.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I was sharing my work, and my work is just expression. It's just… my whole thing is, it's not about perfection, it's about expression.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But how can we express ourselves in the way that God really created us to be? 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like so many people are just, you know, they don't look at themselves as artists, or they're not good with color, or they just… they don't have an interest, but it's part of who we are. It's innate inside of us.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And when I started exploring that, it was just… it opened up, like, creativity is expansive.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, we're all so used to being in this tight box, you know, we wear a lot of masks.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yes.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I think creativity really dissolves those masks. Like, we can show up as we are and express ourselves, and it could be verbally, it could be, you know, any which way, like, it all goes.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And it's finding…what brings that joy? And it might not only be joy, it could be other emotions that are really stuck. It's a really… it's a healing practice, and it became part of my spiritual practice.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So my focus wasn't so much on the outer. How did the painting come out?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, how does it look? Is it bound? Like, all the rules of art, which are very important, especially if you're selling your art, those are things, you know, is there balance, is there harmony, you know, the color.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But for me, it was the inner process of creativity, and I felt it was… as I was creating, it was bringing me back to who I was, like, the essence of who I am.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And that was the door that opened for me.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And continues. It really does continue. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I… I dabbled in so many different, you know, mediums. I went to pottery, and to mosaic, and fiber art, which I still do. I do a lot with fiber. You know, I started dyeing fiber.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I started dyeing fabric, you know, natural dyeing, with just onion skins, and it's like, the color, like it was just incredible.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And then I would have all my materials kind of laid out, and I… I would just grab whatever. Like, I was just drawn to, oh, let me try this. Wait, let me try that.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And being a self-taught artist, I learned so much. I learned what worked, what didn't work, and it helped me really deepen my connection to my creativity.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yeah.... Yes.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, thank you, first of all, for sharing so much of your story. There are many parts with which I resonate… which I resonate, but I think I'll focus, at least initially, on those, those moments where you said, Such and such changed my life.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Thank you, you… Yes, I said a lot of that.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: You know, there was, this happened, and it changed my life, and this happened, and it changed my life, and this happened, and it changed my life. And it occurred to me that when you were speaking to those different moments that changed your life, that those were moments of intersection of spirituality and your relationship to the body. Spirituality and your… and movement. Spirituality and… art, and… dance is like spirituality and dance.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: As someone who's married to a dancer, I have, I have heard that, the dance is… the idea that dance is an original expression of spirituality. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, so taking all of those intersections of spirituality, what I appreciate about your story so much is that I think many folks don't necessarily make that connection of, oh, My body is a door into spirituality, and you used the… that… I believe that you said, in relation to art, that the inner process of creativity was a means of returning to who you truly are, of returning to your truly self, of your true self..

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so I think a lot of us don't necessarily think, oh, how I relate to my body is a doorway through which I can return to my true self, or how I relate to movement, or dance, is a way that… a doorway through which I can return to my true self, or how I relate to art is a doorway, through which I can return to my true self. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So I'm wondering if there are any particular things that helped you, like, make those connections and open to that inner journey, was there anything that really helped you in that process of making the connection between, oh, this thing that I'm doing that has an external aspect, like the body, it relates so deeply to an inner aspect and an inner journey?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, does that… does that motivate any sort of response in you?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yes, yes. You know, I think it really affects everyone a little differently, but for me, I guess, and I didn't realize this, but I'd been a seeker, really, all my life, and I was always, like… for me, the connection to God is… like, my lifeline. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, that is, like…everything for me, because I was so disconnected.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And once I had that experience of connection, when actually at the time of loss, when I… all that was, the things that happened during, you know, the time I share with you.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I didn't realize I was so turned away from God.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, I actually called my rabbi at that time of deep loss, and I said, I'm very depressed.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And he said, you're depressed because you're not connected. You feel you're disconnected from God.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And that just kind of hit home for me. And it was like, yes, that's right.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So I think it doesn't matter if you're going to walk in nature, you know, or you're writing a poem, or you're having a cup of tea with a dear friend that's very present.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, it's like…Or you're… you're… You know, painting. Or you're praying. It's like, how do we bring God into everything we do?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I didn't really realize that, but what was starting to… as the movement moved… like, I was being moved because I had already made that connection.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I didn't put 2 and 2 together.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But as I reflect on my life. And I sit a lot, and I pray a lot, and, like, I have to understand.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, like, because… life is like a puzzle, and all these pieces sometimes get, like, scattered. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: They don't make sense, but as we walk on a path, or we return, or, you know, we get… we become more connected to God and light, and we see all those pieces, all those things that have happened to us, this really makes sense. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's like one big beautiful piece.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, so again, when I'm… when I'm painting, I bring God into everything.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: If I just worry about what it looks like, it's a whole different thing.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But when I go on, like. I… you know, my heart, like, I… it's all about the heart.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Right? It's like putting our heart and soul into everything we do, and…

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And making that connection and feeling God with everything. Like, it's not separate.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I don't know if that answered your question, but I think we… It's a start.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It's a beautiful start. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So… and… And I've got a follow-up question, of course. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Of course! 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I think, often, I want to give listeners, like, well, what does that mean in a real practical, day-to-day, you know, nitty-gritty, like, make it super accessible kind of thing.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, when you say, bringing God into everything, of course, I think of Christ consciousness, Allah consciousness, Buddha consciousness, God consciousness, you know, Buddha nature, all of… I think all of those terms are sort of in the field, so to speak. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So how do you… what is your way of bringing that being with God in everything, whether it's art, or whether it's prayer, or whether it's… you listed quite a few… quite a few things, for everyday or worship, either one?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I think it's a little different for everybody. You know, some people find it in nature. Some people find it in writing poetry.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Creativity is not a box, you know, or as far as art. It's, like, it's finding what brings joy. But it takes time to explore that, and it's an ongoing relationship.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And it's an intention of, who am I? What… what, you know, opens my heart? And it's… for most of us, we don't know who we are. I know I didn't know who I was. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I didn't know my gifts. I didn't know my truth, I didn't know anything, I just was this person walking around, you know?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But when you have the intention of really connecting to God… There's a beautiful saying, actually, I worked in addiction for quite a few years as well, and we used to say, when, you know, you reach out to God, God comes running towards you.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yes.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So it starts with that, like, an intention, like, I want to, I want to know who I am.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And there's another beautiful saying, it's like, we spend half our lives putting our mask on, and the second half our lives taking that mask off.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's like, it's time to take the mask off. You know, we play out these roles and these… you know, play out our lives, and we have… we don't even know the truth of who we are.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: We don't even know what we carry inside of us.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So it's getting curious.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And for me, it was always about having a teacher. You know, I was fortunate and blessed to have my brother as my first spiritual teacher.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But I also had a difficult life in many ways. I didn't come into this world, you know, in a good way.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So there was a lot of healing that was needed.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I really had no idea what was needed until somebody brought that to my attention.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It was actually an acupuncturist that said… asked me about my birth trauma, my birth story, and when I shared it to him, he said, This needs healing. You… you need healing.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I didn't even make that connection. So it's really being honest with ourselves. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, what is it that we need? What's not working in our lives, in my life? You know, is it my relationships? Is it my finances? You know, is it… am I having health challenges?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Because all those things are signals that we need to turn inside.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, it's not about the outer.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: We get so caught in the outer that we forget that there's another reality, and that's the inner truth.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And that's where God wants us.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: To do the inner work.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I'm especially drawn to working with young women, because… especially young mothers.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: That's where my heart is, because I feel the support, they need more spiritual support.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, and I say, you know, try different things. Like, I tried Buddhism, I tried auto-living, I tried Reiki, I tried so many things, because I was yearning and longing for the truth.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I don't know if that is true for everyone, but for me, I needed to know the truth of who I was because I came from a family that was very dysfunctional, and there was a lot of pain, and I didn't want that for myself.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I definitely didn't want that for my children, because if I don't do the inner work...

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I didn't realize all this, it just kind of played out, but, you know, I reflect on my life a lot.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I see that I didn't want my children to experience their lives like I had, you know, in my life, in my childhood. I wanted to give them something more, something better.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I feel like I did. Yeah, I feel like I did.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, it sounds like… curiosity, awareness, intention -- a part of you is very much aware of your intention to foster connection to God, and that sense of connection to God.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And then, I know I'm leaving out other ideas that you said, but I keep returning to the idea of returning to your true self, that these… these different expressions in the outer were a way of you taking an inward journey and that that inward journey is a part of you learning who you really are.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so, that makes me want to ask, who are you?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Who are you in your deepest truth?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, I… the answer to that is I'm everything but nothing.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm…

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, it's about dissolving or purifying the ego of who I think I am, or who I was, letting go of the stories. You know, the pain stories.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And the identifications and really becoming nothing, you know, to just fade away, gently and softly, and, become tender, and… and… open and receptive, and to balance the masculine and the feminine, like, to me, that's very important. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, to be receptive, to be soft but wise, and to be… You know, to have structure, like, we need both.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's even hard for me to say I'm a healer, or I'm an artist. It's like, I don't want to fit into these boxes. I spent all my life trying to get out of boxes, and labels, and…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So…Yeah, I don't… it's a hard question to answer, but hopefully someone will get something from that answer, I don't know.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: I'm going to ask you one more follow-up.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Sure.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hamida.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Is there a connection between who you are and your true self and the name Hamida?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Well, Hamida is the praiseworthy.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And it's really the first light of existence is the Hamid, the Hamd. The Alhamdulillah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, it's really, praising God.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Praising Allah, praising Hashem, whatever name. It's beyond names.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's really, it's really about… You know, continue to deepen that connection, letting go of who we think we are.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Letting go of the beliefs that are kind of just played out, like, it doesn't identify… it doesn't really, it’s not the truth of who we are. Just because we believe it, it doesn't mean it's true.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So really, you know, that's the work I do with my clients. It's like, what's your belief about this? You know, why? What happened that created this belief, that created this pattern?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And our mindset… did it create a closed mindset, or is it an open mindset, or, you know, how has it been playing out in your life?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And so we break it down, and, you know, it's about purification. All spiritual paths really lead to that. It's about purifying what we think we are, who we think we are. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And it's so much more. Our potential -- I'll speak for women, because, you know, I work mostly with women, and I'm a woman -- but our potential is so huge.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, we keep ourselves in these little boxes, and I know that because I was in that box.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But as I started this journey, I realized, my God, these gifts that I've been given, I… like, it took me a long time to even say I was good at something, because I put myself down, I, like, I didn't feel… and this is pretty collective.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I'll speak again with women, you know, we don't think we're good enough, we're not this enough, we're not that enough. We're enough. We're more than we can imagine.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And it's beautiful what we each have inside of us, but the sad part is, most of us will never know what we have.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: We'll never realize the gifts that we've been given, until we do that inner journey. Until we answer that call.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And we all have called. Allah, God knocks on every one of our doors.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Are we going to open the door?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Are we going to answer the call?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Are we going to show up and say yes?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, the yes to my brother, the yes to dance, the yes, yes, I'm here, I'm ready, I'm willing.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Because I can find a million reasons to say no.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And are you… are we going to say yes to letting go of all… of all of it...

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: All of it.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: ...in order to realize that essence of pure light that each of us carry within?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: It takes letting go. It takes letting it all go, yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yeah, that's beautiful. It's not about holding on and attaching.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, because relation… everything will change in life. Every breath, every step of the way, we’re being changed. You know?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And so, can we say yes to a new creation, to a new moment, to a new breath?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And… and not hang on, because that's where the pain and suffering… 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: In Buddhism, it's all about, you know, everything is impermanent.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So let's circle back to creativity and the intersection of spirituality and creativity, and I can't help but think that, that the… the Arabic word be, kun, that all of creation is an expression and a continuation of God saying kun, of God saying be, and that that kun, that one word, that be, is continuing, that it has not ceased, that it is… that it is unceasing, that it is a continuing word. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So I can't help but think about your words about art and creativity as participating in that creating.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And so I'm hoping that you will share maybe a little bit of your art, a piece or two of your artwork, and then tell us a little bit more about your creative process.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yes, so my creative processes, I never go in with an idea of what I'm going to create.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I originally started with abstract when I first started painting, and then I went into trees, because I'm all about trees.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And then the women started coming, and I started only painting women. This has probably only been a couple of years now.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I just start, you know, it's like, just take whatever, take your hands, or, you know, or take a paintbrush, and paper or a canvas and make a mark.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But it's… it's really, like, getting in that mindset, or that heart space, really.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So I'm going to share a painting with you. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I have to give you the story, a little background, because if you looked at it, you would think, oh my god, this woman doesn't know what she's doing. She has no skill, no talent.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And again, it's not about that, but… So I painted this woman.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And she had many layers on her, and it's really a great metaphor for what I shared.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I love working with paper, and all kinds of paints, and inks, and sometimes I just… just do it, you know? I don't think too much about it. And things start happening.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So, about a month ago, I started picking away. I don't know what mood I was in, but I started… I love to do, like put paper down, and all kinds of layers, and plaster, sometimes I use plaster, or compound, joint compound, let it dry, and then I pick away at it and see all the layers underneath.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So, this one, Habib, I think you might be able to see it.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I started picking away at her layers of all the paper.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I… and this was a completely different painting. I mean, she had a lot of… just… it was very, it was very strong...

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: ... painting.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I started peeling away and picking at things, and little by little, she just started…like, showing up in a way that… I just… couldn't believe.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: She's in the raw. Like, it's like, how can we let go of all the layers, all those things we attach to ourselves? You know, this was really what came to me.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And letting go, as you just mentioned, like, letting go of the layers, of the veils, of all the places we want to hide out of protection.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Maybe out of fear.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, what's always… what's deeper? What's the depth? What's… we have to go deeper.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: So, this is… And then because of the plaster that I put on her, you know, it started getting white along the edges, I don't know if you can see, and I kind of left it there.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know what? I love that.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: She's raw, she's… but she's… look at the beauty and the softness of her face, because that's really what's underneath all those layers is that softness.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Beautiful.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And now, I'll show you one more that I'm working on now, and she's quite different.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I always say I'm not sure she's there, John, but … 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Now, she's… she's got a lot going on there.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: She's very striking, yes.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: She's very striking. I… when I do paint, it's very bold, and I love color, and expression, and…

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And again, I never know who's going to show up.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Wow.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Here, she is, and, and a week from now, I might go back into it, I don't know, and completely change it.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And that's creativity, it's like the freedom. And I… I tell my… I sometimes say, well, you know, I should leave it just as it is, but it's like…that… just… curiosity, like, what if?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, let me just try this, let me try that. And it's my painting, who cares? It's like, I'm the boss, you know?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And if I ruin it, and I have done that, I don't go back into it, and it's like, oh, that probably wasn't a good decision, but…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Mmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Okay, you know, it's like, where can I find the forgiveness of my own heart? Like, just leave it. It's not about the outer.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I have to remind myself, because we get caught in the outer.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's about expression, not perfection.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: In both, and maybe I'm being predisposed because of the conversation topic, but in both of those paintings that you show, I get this sense of a deeper self emerging.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And that's what the face is conveying, is that there's this deeper truth of this deeper self that is emerging out from whatever.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Whatever, whatever.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yeah. Absolutely, like, I… I really… It's just trusting the process of creativity.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And allowing ourselves to come empty.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: To not come with all kinds of… you know, projections, or… agendas.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's like, it is… like, these women… it's part of who I am.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And sometimes… Like, this one in particular, like, that's me in there.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Just... if you would... I wish I had, before and after, but before was… she was totally…not like this. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: This one's let go of so much of pain and suffering.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, and you know, she's soft now.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: She's very soft.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: She's everything but nothing.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So how about the non-artist, the non-creative, which it's debatable whether you could actually… that word actually applies accurately to anyone, but setting that aside, for the person who's the appreciator of the art -- any, thoughts on the connection of spirituality and art for the person who's not the creating person, but the appreciating person?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Well… You know, there are a lot of people that just appreciate art, and there's… it's okay, you know?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Because it doesn't… again, it's not a one-size-fits-all. It's like knowing what opens your heart, what brings joy.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, like…the woman that my friend who introduced me to dancing, she was not an artist. She was an artist in another way.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know there were other things that really brought that joy and that creativity.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I realized that we all have that inside of us.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And sometimes it's just appreciating. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But I say, It's okay to appreciate it, but get curious, because…you know, really, it's bring that child out, like, that inner child. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: That's a lot of the work that I do, is, like, really connecting to that inner child, because in that appreciation for whatever it is that you're appreciating, there's something in there for you. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And there's a door there that wants to open. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I say, Just be gentle. Be gentle. Get curious. And go back to that little child, like, what did he or she need, you know, that wasn't… she didn't… or he didn't get?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And sometimes I think it's through… art, through beauty, through creativity that we come in connection with that, which is a very important part of healing.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I don't know if that answers your question, but, in some way.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So if I may try to paraphrase…

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yes.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: So, first approach art with curiosity. Approach art with, heartfulness.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Presence, yeah.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: With heartful presence.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yes. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: With, as perhaps as a child, approach art as a child. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And then, with awareness, paying attention to what occurs inside you, and listen to what happens inside you, and perhaps draw a connection between your appreciation of art and your inner child.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yes.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yes.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yes, and to joy, and pay attention to joy.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yes!

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yes, all… all of that.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: All of that, and so much more, because, yes, for me, it was that place of joy, but it was also sadness in there. It was also pain.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, the emotions would come up, and I would just cry, and it was like, why am I crying? Because things are coming through, they're opening, they're being expressed in another way. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: For some people, it's talk therapy. For some people, it's spiritual healing. Some people, it's art.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I'm trying to remember your question or your comment. I went on another…

Dr. Habīb Boerger: That's okay, because my idea, or my question around how someone who appreciates art relates to art in a spiritual sense, it reminds me of what you said earlier about art being a healing process, the creative process being a healing process for you. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: And it sounds to me like you're saying that the same thing can happen for the person who's appreciating art. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: If you pay attention to what the art evokes in you, and then you allow that washing to occur, you allow the opening and the being with, the presence, and the washing, there can also be a similar healing movement that takes place whether you are the creator, or the appreciator.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Either way, you know, it's, it's like we can appreciate the beauty of trees, right, but it's different when we touch the tree.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: When we witness the tree, when we are present with the tree.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's like, can we be more present with life, no matter what we're doing?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And with each other.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And to see, really, God, Allah, Hashem, whatever name… in everything we… are really witnessing...

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: and seeing. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, are we using what we've been given, you know, our senses. You know, what do we sing? What are we listening to? And… it's a deeper listening.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's deeper, and I go deeper, you know? 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, my teacher Ibrahim said, go deep, go behind, you know?

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like…And that's, to me, that's where the curiosity is. It's not just like....

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: We can stay on the surface of everything but how can we really engage in life?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And, like, to feel life, to know life, to understand who we are, who God created us to be? There's so much there.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's like, we could just kind of sit back and kind of watch this play out.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: But are we really engaged in our life? 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Are we really feeling the depth of our lives and who we are, you know, not just for ourselves, but for really… for our children, for our friends, for our family, for our ancestors, for the future generations?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's very important to do, like, we get so caught on the outer, but…it's time to turn to the inner, because that's where the truth is.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yes.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yeah, that's… that's where the truth lies, and that's how it was in my journey, in my life. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I would… I could never turn back to the way I was, like…I got my life back. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, all these parts…You know, from being introduced to Sufism, from coming into the world with such a deep wound, you know? I had a lot of dysfunction.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I'm still dealing with it, but I'm accepting it. It's like my… it's my story, but I don't identify. The pain… I cut the pain. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's like…the pain is not holding me back. I'm living my life to the fullest degree...

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Hmm.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: the fullest expression of who God created me to be. Without that, my life wouldn't… doesn't make sense.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Because now I feel I can come from a place of service, like, how can I serve? And that's in the praising. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, how can I serve God in the way that's the highest?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: That really matters. Whether we're a mother, we need to serve our children because they are your teachers, right? 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And God gave you a gift. To be a mother, for instance, is a gift.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's not something we should just kind of, you know, push off on other people. Like, you… you raise my children, you know?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: No, we were given this responsibility, and we need to take it, I think, kind of seriously.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: You know, because we have a life, it's our… it's in our hands that we are responsible for. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I see, you know, I'm kind of segueing in another direction here. But, I guess being really present with what… whatever we've been given.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And to honor it, respect it, and do… and have a level of integrity.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, I remember I went to my Shaykh Sidi once, and I said, I don't know what to do with my work, you know, like, I don't know what kind of work to do.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And he said, whatever you do, do it with the highest integrity.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And that, to me, is… was a message that I keep in my heart, at all times. What's the highest?

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Because we… a lot of us are just operating at a very superficial level.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: And I feel like that standard needs to… to be… you know, raised up. But it starts with us.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I know I kind of went in a different direction there, Dr. Habib, but I hope that’s okay.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: That’s okay.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: That's okay, it's a beautiful invitation for us to be as fully engaged in life as we can, as deeply engaged as we can, with the highest level of integrity that we can, regardless of what we do, with the intention to see the Divine and relate to the Divine, and be with the Divine in everything that we do, and then also the invitation to, whether it's art, or whether it's nature, whatever it might be, to allow that to be a doorway to become more fully an expression of who we truly are, of who we were created to be.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Yes.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah. Thank you, thank you for that.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: I guess I want to close and just say, you know, it's not just to be a spectator of life. 

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: It's to really…engage and say, yes, I'm ready, I'm here.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Like, life is now.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Yeah, yeah. Life is now.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Life is now.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Michelle, thank you again for being here and for the great conversation.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Thank you to all listeners for joining us on Beyond Names.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Before we go, briefly, if you would please take one breath and pause and reflect for just a moment on what stays with you from this conversation with Michelle Hamida.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Again, thank you for the invitation to be fully engaged in Life Is Now.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: May something you heard today help you reconnect with the light in your own heart.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: May you grow in compassion, clarity, and courage. May you find your way again and again, back home to yourself, back home to the Divine, however you name it.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: If today's conversation spoke to you, please like, share, and comment on this episode. Please follow Beyond Names. To make an appointment with me, please visit https://www.habibboerger.com/. 

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Until next time -- May you be light. May you consciously participate in growing your light, and may you share your light.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Peace be with you.

Michele Hamida Rabinowitz: Thank you, Dr. Habib.

Dr. Habīb Boerger: Thank you.